scenes cut from "Space is the Place" (was "They Plan to Leave")

9 posts / 0 new
Last post
#1 Tue, 2011-08-16 18:11
Margaret Grimes
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 1 month ago
Joined: 2010-12-22 23:45

scenes cut from "Space is the Place" (was "They Plan to Leave")

http://www.allmovie.com/dvd/sun-ra-space-is-the-place-43758

This is the so-called director's cut of "Space Is the Place" with some
"restored" footage, but some or all of the "restored" footage is made up of
scenes that Sun Ra specifically asked to have removed, including one of two
white men punching, slapping, and kicking black prostitutes, and one of
naked nurses with the Devil, scenes that are out of character with the rest
of the movie, which is a comical, sad, and philosophical allegory, but not
seamy or vicious as these scenes are. Nor does Sun Ra appear in them.

We saw the "director's cut" with "restored footage" at the Maysles Cinema in
Harlem last summer, and afterwards I exchanged Emails with Philip Maysles,
who wrote: "You are correct - upon further research, those scenes you
mention were re-inserted by John Coney, the director of the film, in 2003.
These were cuts that had been originally requested by Sun Ra, likely for the
reasons you mention. This is the only version commercially available and we
do not have the resources to track down and exhibit the original film print.
If we exhibit the film again in the future, we will be sure to present it in
a manner where these changes are noted and the issues that are raised around
authorship and exploitation are addressed critically in a post screening
conversation."

Maybe someone on this list can let Philip Maysles know where he can obtain
the original film print: philip@mayslesfilms.com.

> >>

On Tuesday, August 16, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Tobias van Veen at
quadrantcross@gmail.com wrote:

indeed the scenes cut from _Space is the Place_ also show a more inclusive
Ra

cut scenes? are these posted anywhere? Thanks for all this, exceedingly
interesting, have hooked into those links and I'm looking forward to more :)

AFAIK these scenes aren't online --- at least not yet. They are mentioned in
the literature on the film (Szed and Nabeel Zuberi). Check out the
discussion here:

Sounds of the Future: Essays on Music in Science Fiction Film
Ed. Mathew J. Bartkowiak

http://www.amazon.com/Sounds-Future-Essays-Science-Fiction/dp/0786444800

excerpt:

http://bit.ly/norhLA

It's unfortunate that the "director's cut" DVD adds more of the
blaxploitation narrative [the pimp/ho storyline] but none of the
more"cosmopolitan" scenes [white inclusivity to post-earth exodus]. These
kinds of editing decisions give much food for thought, as well as Ra's
comment about the NAACP "will be after us" if the more inclusive scenes were
included.

If anyone here has access to the earlier edits / deleted footage, please let
me know... ;p

best/ tobias

> > >

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 12:59 AM, Tobias van Veen at
wrote:

Thanks John for the track!

Btw, after reading the texts you mention as well as Szwed's biography, my
impression is that Ra influenced the Nation of Islam more so than he being
influenced by their writings. Though I'm not particularly well-versed in
the Nation of Islam's history or teachings, I wonder if the similarity you
find is due to Ra's influence. Just a thought...

Now that indeed is a thesis worthy of some research... !

I believe it is Szed who documents some of Ra's time in Chicago when he was
preaching on streetcorners alongside NOI members... however I think it's
more likely that Elijah Muhammed was influenced in the same historical
moment as Ra by the revival of black nationalism in regards to Kemet,
readings of the same source texts in black mysticism, etc. But I am very
curious to know more concerning Ra's Chicago era. The information is scant.

The path Ra chose, as it diverged from NOI, marks a political decision that
becomes more apparent in the '60s NYC scene, where Ra seems to carefully
negotiate both black and white militancies. He balances out the downtown
scene with the rising black nationalism of Afrocentricity (Amiri Baraka's
Harlem move and the founding of the Black Arts Movement) by putting to the
test his sound and vision of Afrofuturism as a means of blending both Harlem
and Alphabet City... indeed the scenes cut from _Space is the Place_ also
show a more inclusive Ra (he also takes back some white kids to Saturn).

Szed also mentions that Ra lived in a house provided by the Panthers during
his stay in California / Berkeley... a colleague of mine has dug up more on
this fascinating moment:

Kreiss, Daniel. ³Appropriating the Master¹s Tools: Sun Ra, the Black
Panthers, and Black Consciousness, 1952-1973.² Black Music Research
Journal, 28(1): 57-81, 2008.

http://www.stanford.edu/~dkreiss/Kreiss_AppFinalProofs.pdf

I'm on the road and will post more info about the upcoming volume when I
have the official details. It's been in the works for three years. There is
some new research material on Ra, as well as all kinds of takes on
Afrofuturism, with plenty on music and jazz.

For those interested I often blog all things Afrofuturism here... latest
post is on Paul D Miller's _Book of Ice_ which includes a conversation /
interview we had concerning Afrofuturism..

http://fugitive.quadrantcrossing.org/

best/

> tobias.

_______________________________________________
Saturn mailing list
Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info
http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options

Wed, 2011-08-17 10:30
Joe Castleman 4
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 4 months ago
Joined: 2010-12-22 23:55

scenes cut from "Space is the Place" (was "They Plan to Leave")

For what it's worth, Mystic Fire Video released the "Sun Ra cut" (the
shorter version) on VHS in the early 1990s. (I believe this roughly
coincided (by a year or so) with the release of the Soundtrack CD on
Evidence.)

Joe

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Margaret Davis Grimes
wrote:
> Maybe someone on this list can let Philip Maysles know where he can obtain
> the original film print:  philip@mayslesfilms.com.
_______________________________________________
Saturn mailing list
Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info
http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options

Fri, 2011-08-19 20:45 (Reply to #2)
Gary Lawrence Murphy
Gary Lawrence Murphy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 9 months ago
Joined: 2010-12-15 19:40

scenes cut from "Space is the Place" (was "They Plan to Leave")

Well now this IS funny, you might call it the "Space is the Place Epilogue" because it seems that despite one last post-Ra departure re-release attempt by The Overseer(s) to score more points over Sun Ra by releasing a widely distributed director's cut that would sell units but be unsuitable to watch, the ploy is thwarted completely by that Bit Torrent keeping alive the old analog VHS edition of Sun Ra's purer message -- I just watched a VHS-dubbed file I found via The Pirate Bay and I am delighted; it didn't contain those scenes of including white kids onboard (there are no white kids in the film at all) and it was only 65 minutes but the edit was coherent in the telling of the tale and really everything I'd wanted from that DVD, but best of all, there isn't anything in it that isn't whole-family viewable and THAT makes a big difference.  My younger kids, and maybe especially the nearly-six-year-old, are going to love this print, and I am so happy that I can show it to them.


So even decades on, try as 'they' might to make Sun Ra appear to sell out, it is the ordinary street kids on the torrents who see his value, rescue him from the dungeon of the delete bins and set the record straight -- To put it in the vernacular of Scooby-Doo, "they might have got away with it too, if it weren't for those pesky kids getting in the way" :)

Well I thought it was funny.


On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Joe Castleman <a.hominid@gyrofrog.com> wrote:

For what it's worth, Mystic Fire Video released the "Sun Ra cut" (the

shorter version) on VHS in the early 1990s.  (I believe this roughly

coincided (by a year or so) with the release of the Soundtrack CD on

Evidence.)



Joe




On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Margaret Davis Grimes

<musicmargaret@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Maybe someone on this list can let Philip Maysles know where he can obtain

> the original film print:  philip@mayslesfilms.com.
_______________________________________________

Saturn mailing list

Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info

http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options




--

Have Blog, Will Travel: blog.teledyn.com
A Serviceable Substitute: post.teledyn.com


Fri, 2011-08-19 21:40
Margaret Grimes
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 1 month ago
Joined: 2010-12-22 23:45

scenes cut from "Space is the Place" (was "They Plan to Leave")






"Ordinary street kids on
the torrents"?  Is that some sort of known demographic?  Feel free to
prove me wrnog, but I wouldn't think it's "ordinary street kids" who run
the torrents; I'd think a lot of those who do are rather like, well, quite
a number of people on this list.

 

Anyway, to me the point
here is that Sun Ra himself did not want the tawdry scenes in the film, and they
were removed at his request, and then re-added by John Coney in
2OO3.  In his August 17th post, Knoel Scott attested to his horror at
seeing the restored footage a few years ago in Philadelphia, " color=#000000 face="Times New Roman">especially after having spent many hours
with Sunny while he would  continually review and edit the film at Morton
St during the early 80s.  thus is the reality of exploitation and
denigration of an Artists legacy after their earthly departure though this sort
of disrespect hasnt been visited upon the estates of Elvis, John Lennon and the
like."

 

I'd think that people on a
list dedicated to Sun Ra wouldn't want this footage in the film, knowing
that Sun Ra himself didn't want it there. 

  color=#000080 face=Garamond>

<< >> <
<><> ><

 


On Friday, August 19, 2011 at 11:41 PM, Gary Lawrence Murphy
wrote:


Well now this IS funny, you might call it the "Space is the Place
Epilogue" because it seems that despite one last post-Ra departure re-release
attempt by The Overseer(s) to score more points over Sun Ra by releasing a
widely distributed director's cut that would sell units but be unsuitable to
watch, the ploy is thwarted completely by that Bit Torrent keeping alive the old
analog VHS edition of Sun Ra's purer message -- I just watched a VHS-dubbed file
I found via The Pirate Bay and I am delighted; it didn't contain those scenes of
including white kids onboard (there are no white kids in the film at all) and it
was only 65 minutes but the edit was coherent in the telling of the tale and
really everything I'd wanted from that DVD, but best of all, there isn't
anything in it that isn't whole-family viewable and THAT makes a
big difference.  My younger kids, and maybe especially the
nearly-six-year-old, are going to love this print, and I am so happy that I can
show it to them.


So even decades on, try as 'they' might to make Sun Ra appear to sell out,
it is the ordinary street kids on the torrents who see his value, rescue him
from the dungeon of the delete bins and set the record straight -- To put it in
the vernacular of Scooby-Doo, "they might have got away with it too, if it
weren't for those pesky kids getting in the way" :)



Well I thought it was funny.

 

<< >> <
><> <> >

 

On Tuesday, August 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Margaret Davis Grimes wrote:



href="http://www.allmovie.com/dvd/sun-ra-space-is-the-place-43758">http://www.allmovie.com/dvd/sun-ra-space-is-the-place-43758

color=#000080 face=Garamond>This is the so-called director's cut of "Space Is
the Place" with some "restored" footage, but some or all of  the "restored"
footage is made up of scenes that Sun Ra specifically asked to have
removed, including one [scene] of two white men punching, slapping, and kicking
black prostitutes, and one of naked nurses with the Devil, scenes that are out
of character with the rest of the movie, which is a comical, sad, and
philosophical allegory, but not seamy or vicious as these scenes are.  Nor
does Sun Ra appear in them.

We saw the "director's cut" with "restored
footage" at the Maysles Cinema in Harlem last summer, and afterwards I exchanged
Emails with Philip Maysles, who wrote:  " face="Times New Roman">You are correct - upon further research, those scenes you
mention were re-inserted by John Coney, the director of the film, in 2003. 
These were cuts that had been originally requested by Sun Ra, likely for
the reasons you mention
[emphasis added].  This is the
only version commercially available and we do not have the resources to track
down and exhibit the original film print.  If we exhibit the film again in
the future, we will be sure to present it in a manner where these changes are
noted and the issues that are raised around authorship and exploitation are
addressed critically in a post screening
conversation."

Fri, 2011-08-19 21:45 (Reply to #4)
Edgar Um
Edgar Um's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 4 months ago
Joined: 2010-12-22 23:50

scenes cut from "Space is the Place" (was "They Plan to Leave")

a VHS copy of Sun Ra's edit has been floating around for many many years. I much prefer it to the DVD version.

On Aug 20, 2011 12:39 AM, "Margaret Davis Grimes" <musicmargaret@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Ordinary street kids on the torrents"? Is that some sort of known demographic? Feel free to prove me wrnog, but I wouldn't think it's "ordinary street kids" who run the torrents; I'd think a lot of those who do are rather like, well, quite a number of people on this list.

>
> Anyway, to me the point here is that Sun Ra himself did not want the tawdry scenes in the film, and they were removed at his request, and then re-added by John Coney in 2OO3. In his August 17th post, Knoel Scott attested to his horror at seeing the restored footage a few years ago in Philadelphia, "especially after having spent many hours with Sunny while he would continually review and edit the film at Morton St during the early 80s. thus is the reality of exploitation and denigration of an Artists legacy after their earthly departure though this sort of disrespect hasnt been visited upon the estates of Elvis, John Lennon and the like."

>
> I'd think that people on a list dedicated to Sun Ra wouldn't want this footage in the film, knowing that Sun Ra himself didn't want it there.
>
> << >> < <><> ><

>
> On Friday, August 19, 2011 at 11:41 PM, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
>
>
> Well now this IS funny, you might call it the "Space is the Place Epilogue" because it seems that despite one last post-Ra departure re-release attempt by The Overseer(s) to score more points over Sun Ra by releasing a widely distributed director's cut that would sell units but be unsuitable to watch, the ploy is thwarted completely by that Bit Torrent keeping alive the old analog VHS edition of Sun Ra's purer message -- I just watched a VHS-dubbed file I found via The Pirate Bay and I am delighted; it didn't contain those scenes of including white kids onboard (there are no white kids in the film at all) and it was only 65 minutes but the edit was coherent in the telling of the tale and really everything I'd wanted from that DVD, but best of all, there isn't anything in it that isn't whole-family viewable and THAT makes a big difference. My younger kids, and maybe especially the nearly-six-year-old, are going to love this print, and I am so happy that I can show it to them.

>
>
> So even decades on, try as 'they' might to make Sun Ra appear to sell out, it is the ordinary street kids on the torrents who see his value, rescue him from the dungeon of the delete bins and set the record straight -- To put it in the vernacular of Scooby-Doo, "they might have got away with it too, if it weren't for those pesky kids getting in the way" :)

>
>
> Well I thought it was funny.
>
> << >> < ><> <> >
>
> On Tuesday, August 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Margaret Davis Grimes wrote:
>
>

> http://www.allmovie.com/dvd/sun-ra-space-is-the-place-43758
>
> This is the so-called director's cut of "Space Is the Place" with some "restored" footage, but some or all of the "restored" footage is made up of scenes that Sun Ra specifically asked to have removed, including one [scene] of two white men punching, slapping, and kicking black prostitutes, and one of naked nurses with the Devil, scenes that are out of character with the rest of the movie, which is a comical, sad, and philosophical allegory, but not seamy or vicious as these scenes are. Nor does Sun Ra appear in them.

>
> We saw the "director's cut" with "restored footage" at the Maysles Cinema in Harlem last summer, and afterwards I exchanged Emails with Philip Maysles, who wrote: "You are correct - upon further research, those scenes you mention were re-inserted by John Coney, the director of the film, in 2003. These were cuts that had been originally requested by Sun Ra, likely for the reasons you mention [emphasis added]. This is the only version commercially available and we do not have the resources to track down and exhibit the original film print. If we exhibit the film again in the future, we will be sure to present it in a manner where these changes are noted and the issues that are raised around authorship and exploitation are addressed critically in a post screening conversation."
Sat, 2011-08-20 08:25 (Reply to #5)
Ben Opie 4
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 4 months ago
Joined: 2010-12-22 23:45

scenes cut from "Space is the Place"

On 8/20/11 12:42 AM, Edgar Um Bucholtz wrote:
>
> a VHS copy of Sun Ra's edit has been floating around for many many
> years. I much prefer it to the DVD version.
>
>

I'm actually happy to have seen both versions. In some respects it's a
toss-up for me; the plot of the longer version makes considerably more
sense, and there are one or two scenes in there that I thought were
pretty funny. However, some of it was also shocking, particularly when
the two white government men beat the hell out of a prostitute. That's
real exploitation fare. Also, Sun Ra becomes more of a supporting
character than a lead, the long version is much more about the Overseer.
Ra's content is all there in the long version, just diluted.

So this being a Sun Ra list, I guess it's assumed with most reading that
you'd prefer the short cut. I suppose it's what you're after, or what
you bring to the viewing. For pure Ra, "A Joyful Noise" is really the
preferable vehicle anyway.

Ben
_______________________________________________
Saturn mailing list
Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info
http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options

Sat, 2011-08-20 18:50 (Reply to #6)
Gary Lawrence Murphy
Gary Lawrence Murphy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 9 months ago
Joined: 2010-12-15 19:40

scenes cut from "Space is the Place" (was "They Plan to Leave")

If you cruise the comments on the torrent sites, I'm sure you'll be satisfied that it is largely a high-school crowd, and nowhere near being Yale preppies, it is the kids, they do it for themselves because they can, and it is, for someone like me, annoying that their demographic runs the show because it makes it very difficult for me to introduce the marvel of it to someone such as yourself, because it is a marvel, not only because it preserves and promotes gems like this.  


As a further example, I am among the first members of the official Pirate Party of Canada, an official party in the Canadian national political scene, but at our last round of national elections we had to choose officers and it was difficult to find anyone with sufficient passion who was ALSO of the Age of Majority, a necessary requirement for party officers.  Even our first running candidate was maybe barely over 20, and post-meetings (where they find gray me quite quaint) the party faithful generally scoot off to play Warcraft with each other where other political groups might search for a bourbon at some local hole.  it's the kids, make no mistake.


and it's like Albert Ayler said, you may not like it, but you had better adjust, because all the young cats are playing this way and soon, that's all there will be :)

and I'm further delighted that some few among them chose to sustain THIS version of the film (the other is probably there too, I have no doubt) because we can be pretty sure it wasn't some 50-something who took the time to prepare and host the first seed.  I find that encouraging.



On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Margaret Davis Grimes <musicmargaret@earthlink.net> wrote:

"Ordinary street kids on
the torrents"?  Is that some sort of known demographic?  Feel free to
prove me wrnog, but I wouldn't think it's "ordinary street kids" who run
the torrents; I'd think a lot of those who do are rather like, well, quite
a number of people on this list.
 
Anyway, to me the point
here is that Sun Ra himself did not want the tawdry scenes in the film, and they
were removed at his request, and then re-added by John Coney in
2OO3.  In his August 17th post, Knoel Scott attested to his horror at
seeing the restored footage a few years ago in Philadelphia, "especially after having spent many hours
with Sunny while he would  continually review and edit the film at Morton
St during the early 80s.  thus is the reality of exploitation and
denigration of an Artists legacy after their earthly departure though this sort
of disrespect hasnt been visited upon the estates of Elvis, John Lennon and the
like."
 
I'd think that people on a
list dedicated to Sun Ra wouldn't want this footage in the film, knowing
that Sun Ra himself didn't want it there. 
 
<< >> <
<><> ><
 
On Friday, August 19, 2011 at 11:41 PM, Gary Lawrence Murphy
wrote:

Well now this IS funny, you might call it the "Space is the Place
Epilogue" because it seems that despite one last post-Ra departure re-release
attempt by The Overseer(s) to score more points over Sun Ra by releasing a
widely distributed director's cut that would sell units but be unsuitable to
watch, the ploy is thwarted completely by that Bit Torrent keeping alive the old
analog VHS edition of Sun Ra's purer message -- I just watched a VHS-dubbed file
I found via The Pirate Bay and I am delighted; it didn't contain those scenes of
including white kids onboard (there are no white kids in the film at all) and it
was only 65 minutes but the edit was coherent in the telling of the tale and
really everything I'd wanted from that DVD, but best of all, there isn't
anything in it that isn't whole-family viewable and THAT makes a
big difference.  My younger kids, and maybe especially the
nearly-six-year-old, are going to love this print, and I am so happy that I can
show it to them.


So even decades on, try as 'they' might to make Sun Ra appear to sell out,
it is the ordinary street kids on the torrents who see his value, rescue him
from the dungeon of the delete bins and set the record straight -- To put it in
the vernacular of Scooby-Doo, "they might have got away with it too, if it
weren't for those pesky kids getting in the way" :)

Well I thought it was funny.
 
<< >> <
><> <> >
 
On Tuesday, August 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Margaret Davis Grimes wrote:

This is the so-called director's cut of "Space Is
the Place" with some "restored" footage, but some or all of  the "restored"
footage is made up of scenes that Sun Ra specifically asked to have
removed, including one [scene] of two white men punching, slapping, and kicking
black prostitutes, and one of naked nurses with the Devil, scenes that are out
of character with the rest of the movie, which is a comical, sad, and
philosophical allegory, but not seamy or vicious as these scenes are.  Nor
does Sun Ra appear in them.

We saw the "director's cut" with "restored
footage" at the Maysles Cinema in Harlem last summer, and afterwards I exchanged
Emails with Philip Maysles, who wrote:  "You are correct - upon further research, those scenes you
mention were re-inserted by John Coney, the director of the film, in 2003. 
These were cuts that had been originally requested by Sun Ra, likely for
the reasons you mention
[emphasis added].  This is the
only version commercially available and we do not have the resources to track
down and exhibit the original film print.  If we exhibit the film again in
the future, we will be sure to present it in a manner where these changes are
noted and the issues that are raised around authorship and exploitation are
addressed critically in a post screening
conversation."


_______________________________________________

Saturn mailing list

Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info

http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options




--

Have Blog, Will Travel: blog.teledyn.com
A Serviceable Substitute: post.teledyn.com


Sat, 2011-08-20 23:45 (Reply to #7)
Billy Wilkes
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 4 months ago
Joined: 2010-12-22 23:50

scenes cut from "Space is the Place" (was "They Plan to Leave")

Hi,

My demographic group is "retired"  age 67, white, male and living in Australia. Most importantly a "fan" of Mr.Ra for longer than I care to think.

I have a copy of the Video cassette as released by Blast First in it's box entitled "Cosmic Visions". I also have a dvd of "Space is the Place" issued by Plexifilm and purporting to be "the director's cut restored to it's 82 minute length ". I no longer have easy access to a video play playback facility so can someone please explain to me whether my video is the same as the dvd I have.

regards, 
Billy




On 21/08/2011, at 11:49 AM, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:



If you cruise the comments on the torrent sites, I'm sure you'll be satisfied that it is largely a high-school crowd, and nowhere near being Yale preppies, it is the kids, they do it for themselves because they can, and it is, for someone like me, annoying that their demographic runs the show because it makes it very difficult for me to introduce the marvel of it to someone such as yourself, because it is a marvel, not only because it preserves and promotes gems like this.  

As a further example, I am among the first members of the official Pirate Party of Canada, an official party in the Canadian national political scene, but at our last round of national elections we had to choose officers and it was difficult to find anyone with sufficient passion who was ALSO of the Age of Majority, a necessary requirement for party officers.  Even our first running candidate was maybe barely over 20, and post-meetings (where they find gray me quite quaint) the party faithful generally scoot off to play Warcraft with each other where other political groups might search for a bourbon at some local hole.  it's the kids, make no mistake.

and it's like Albert Ayler said, you may not like it, but you had better adjust, because all the young cats are playing this way and soon, that's all there will be :)

and I'm further delighted that some few among them chose to sustain THIS version of the film (the other is probably there too, I have no doubt) because we can be pretty sure it wasn't some 50-something who took the time to prepare and host the first seed.  I find that encouraging.


On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Margaret Davis Grimes <musicmargaret@earthlink.net> wrote:


"Ordinary street kids on the torrents"?  Is that some sort of known demographic?  Feel free to prove me wrnog, but I wouldn't think it's "ordinary street kids" who run the torrents; I'd think a lot of those who do are rather like, well, quite a number of people on this list.
 
Anyway, to me the point here is that Sun Ra himself did not want the tawdry scenes in the film, and they were removed at his request, and then re-added by John Coney in 2OO3.  In his August 17th post, Knoel Scott attested to his horror at seeing the restored footage a few years ago in Philadelphia, "especially after having spent many hours with Sunny while he would  continually review and edit the film at Morton St during the early 80s.  thus is the reality of exploitation and denigration of an Artists legacy after their earthly departure though this sort of disrespect hasnt been visited upon the estates of Elvis, John Lennon and the like."
 
I'd think that people on a list dedicated to Sun Ra wouldn't want this footage in the film, knowing that Sun Ra himself didn't want it there. 
 
<< >> < <><> ><
 
On Friday, August 19, 2011 at 11:41 PM, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:

Well now this IS funny, you might call it the "Space is the Place Epilogue" because it seems that despite one last post-Ra departure re-release attempt by The Overseer(s) to score more points over Sun Ra by releasing a widely distributed director's cut that would sell units but be unsuitable to watch, the ploy is thwarted completely by that Bit Torrent keeping alive the old analog VHS edition of Sun Ra's purer message -- I just watched a VHS-dubbed file I found via The Pirate Bay and I am delighted; it didn't contain those scenes of including white kids onboard (there are no white kids in the film at all) and it was only 65 minutes but the edit was coherent in the telling of the tale and really everything I'd wanted from that DVD, but best of all, there isn't anything in it that isn't whole-family viewable and THAT makes a big difference.  My younger kids, and maybe especially the nearly-six-year-old, are going to love this print, and I am so happy that I can show it to them.


So even decades on, try as 'they' might to make Sun Ra appear to sell out, it is the ordinary street kids on the torrents who see his value, rescue him from the dungeon of the delete bins and set the record straight -- To put it in the vernacular of Scooby-Doo, "they might have got away with it too, if it weren't for those pesky kids getting in the way" :)

Well I thought it was funny.
 
<< >> < ><> <> >
 
On Tuesday, August 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Margaret Davis Grimes wrote:

This is the so-called director's cut of "Space Is the Place" with some "restored" footage, but some or all of  the "restored" footage is made up of scenes that Sun Ra specifically asked to have removed, including one [scene] of two white men punching, slapping, and kicking black prostitutes, and one of naked nurses with the Devil, scenes that are out of character with the rest of the movie, which is a comical, sad, and philosophical allegory, but not seamy or vicious as these scenes are.  Nor does Sun Ra appear in them.

We saw the "director's cut" with "restored footage" at the Maysles Cinema in Harlem last summer, and afterwards I exchanged Emails with Philip Maysles, who wrote:  "You are correct - upon further research, those scenes you mention were re-inserted by John Coney, the director of the film, in 2003.  These were cuts that had been originally requested by Sun Ra, likely for the reasons you mention [emphasis added].  This is the only version commercially available and we do not have the resources to track down and exhibit the original film print.  If we exhibit the film again in the future, we will be sure to present it in a manner where these changes are noted and the issues that are raised around authorship and exploitation are addressed critically in a post screening conversation."


_______________________________________________
Saturn mailing list
Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info
http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options




--

Have Blog, Will Travel: blog.teledyn.com
A Serviceable Substitute: post.teledyn.com


_______________________________________________
Saturn mailing list
Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info
http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options


Sun, 2011-08-21 07:25 (Reply to #8)
Gary Lawrence Murphy
Gary Lawrence Murphy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 9 months ago
Joined: 2010-12-15 19:40

scenes cut from "Space is the Place" (was "They Plan to Leave")

heh -- you might ask some local youths to dub the VHS to DVD for you; of course, that involves breaking its ancient anti-coping protection, but that won't phase them.


On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Billy Wilkes <kachina1@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Hi,

My demographic group is "retired"  age 67, white, male and living in Australia. Most importantly a "fan" of Mr.Ra for longer than I care to think.

I have a copy of the Video cassette as released by Blast First in it's box entitled "Cosmic Visions". I also have a dvd of "Space is the Place" issued by Plexifilm and purporting to be "the director's cut restored to it's 82 minute length ". I no longer have easy access to a video play playback facility so can someone please explain to me whether my video is the same as the dvd I have.

regards, 
Billy





On 21/08/2011, at 11:49 AM, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:



If you cruise the comments on the torrent sites, I'm sure you'll be satisfied that it is largely a high-school crowd, and nowhere near being Yale preppies, it is the kids, they do it for themselves because they can, and it is, for someone like me, annoying that their demographic runs the show because it makes it very difficult for me to introduce the marvel of it to someone such as yourself, because it is a marvel, not only because it preserves and promotes gems like this.  


As a further example, I am among the first members of the official Pirate Party of Canada, an official party in the Canadian national political scene, but at our last round of national elections we had to choose officers and it was difficult to find anyone with sufficient passion who was ALSO of the Age of Majority, a necessary requirement for party officers.  Even our first running candidate was maybe barely over 20, and post-meetings (where they find gray me quite quaint) the party faithful generally scoot off to play Warcraft with each other where other political groups might search for a bourbon at some local hole.  it's the kids, make no mistake.

and it's like Albert Ayler said, you may not like it, but you had better adjust, because all the young cats are playing this way and soon, that's all there will be :)

and I'm further delighted that some few among them chose to sustain THIS version of the film (the other is probably there too, I have no doubt) because we can be pretty sure it wasn't some 50-something who took the time to prepare and host the first seed.  I find that encouraging.



On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Margaret Davis Grimes <musicmargaret@earthlink.net> wrote:


"Ordinary street kids on the torrents"?  Is that some sort of known demographic?  Feel free to prove me wrnog, but I wouldn't think it's "ordinary street kids" who run the torrents; I'd think a lot of those who do are rather like, well, quite a number of people on this list.
 
Anyway, to me the point here is that Sun Ra himself did not want the tawdry scenes in the film, and they were removed at his request, and then re-added by John Coney in 2OO3.  In his August 17th post, Knoel Scott attested to his horror at seeing the restored footage a few years ago in Philadelphia, "especially after having spent many hours with Sunny while he would  continually review and edit the film at Morton St during the early 80s.  thus is the reality of exploitation and denigration of an Artists legacy after their earthly departure though this sort of disrespect hasnt been visited upon the estates of Elvis, John Lennon and the like."
 
I'd think that people on a list dedicated to Sun Ra wouldn't want this footage in the film, knowing that Sun Ra himself didn't want it there. 
 
<< >> < <><> ><
 
On Friday, August 19, 2011 at 11:41 PM, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:

Well now this IS funny, you might call it the "Space is the Place Epilogue" because it seems that despite one last post-Ra departure re-release attempt by The Overseer(s) to score more points over Sun Ra by releasing a widely distributed director's cut that would sell units but be unsuitable to watch, the ploy is thwarted completely by that Bit Torrent keeping alive the old analog VHS edition of Sun Ra's purer message -- I just watched a VHS-dubbed file I found via The Pirate Bay and I am delighted; it didn't contain those scenes of including white kids onboard (there are no white kids in the film at all) and it was only 65 minutes but the edit was coherent in the telling of the tale and really everything I'd wanted from that DVD, but best of all, there isn't anything in it that isn't whole-family viewable and THAT makes a big difference.  My younger kids, and maybe especially the nearly-six-year-old, are going to love this print, and I am so happy that I can show it to them.


So even decades on, try as 'they' might to make Sun Ra appear to sell out, it is the ordinary street kids on the torrents who see his value, rescue him from the dungeon of the delete bins and set the record straight -- To put it in the vernacular of Scooby-Doo, "they might have got away with it too, if it weren't for those pesky kids getting in the way" :)

Well I thought it was funny.
 
<< >> < ><> <> >
 
On Tuesday, August 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Margaret Davis Grimes wrote:

This is the so-called director's cut of "Space Is the Place" with some "restored" footage, but some or all of  the "restored" footage is made up of scenes that Sun Ra specifically asked to have removed, including one [scene] of two white men punching, slapping, and kicking black prostitutes, and one of naked nurses with the Devil, scenes that are out of character with the rest of the movie, which is a comical, sad, and philosophical allegory, but not seamy or vicious as these scenes are.  Nor does Sun Ra appear in them.


We saw the "director's cut" with "restored footage" at the Maysles Cinema in Harlem last summer, and afterwards I exchanged Emails with Philip Maysles, who wrote:  "You are correct - upon further research, those scenes you mention were re-inserted by John Coney, the director of the film, in 2003.  These were cuts that had been originally requested by Sun Ra, likely for the reasons you mention [emphasis added].  This is the only version commercially available and we do not have the resources to track down and exhibit the original film print.  If we exhibit the film again in the future, we will be sure to present it in a manner where these changes are noted and the issues that are raised around authorship and exploitation are addressed critically in a post screening conversation."


_______________________________________________
Saturn mailing list
Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info
http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options




--

Have Blog, Will Travel: blog.teledyn.com
A Serviceable Substitute: post.teledyn.com


_______________________________________________

Saturn mailing list
Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info
http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options



_______________________________________________

Saturn mailing list

Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info

http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options




--

Have Blog, Will Travel: blog.teledyn.com
A Serviceable Substitute: post.teledyn.com