Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

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#1 Sun, 2012-02-26 15:02
LPogost
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

A new video from this tour has surfaced -
1965 Olympia, Paris, 30 Minutes
tunes: The Egyptian, Blues March - incomplete

as far as i know, this is the only available recording of this group
besides the Jazz 625 video.

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Sat, 2012-03-03 16:37
rodman lewis
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

On 26/02/12 23:02, lpogost@aol.com wrote:
> A new video from this tour has surfaced -
> 1965 Olympia, Paris, 30 Minutes
> tunes: The Egyptian, Blues March - incomplete
>
> as far as i know, this is the only available recording of this group
> besides the Jazz 625 video.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
Haven't seen this, but have seen the Jazz 625 one, which was pretty
awful--a typical Gilmore performance away from Sun Ra. I can only think
of three occasions when he shined in that sort of context--with Andrew
Hill, Pete LaRoca and George Russell. Performances with Dizzy Reece,
Elmo Hope, Clifford Jordan, Mingus, Blakey, Freddie Hubbard, Paul
Bley...well, nothing happens!

Julian Vein
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Sat, 2012-03-03 16:37 (Reply to #2)
Knoel Scott
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan


I beg to differ!   Everything John Gilmore played was monumental  especially his All the things you are solo with Mingus    The Clifford Jordan Duo is an encyclopedic of Bopology   His asymetrical rhythmic phrasing is unparrelled except possibly Sonny Rollins  the sheer emotive content in his tone bwas heart wrenching!  Be careful when you speak of the Father of the 'God 'Coltrane thusly  most influential Saxophinsist since Pres (along with Rollins)




From: Julian Vein <julianvein@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: saturn@outerspaceways.info
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ Saturn ] Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan



On 26/02/12 23:02, lpogost@aol.com wrote:
> A new video from this tour has surfaced -
> 1965 Olympia, Paris, 30 Minutes
> tunes: The Egyptian, Blues March - incomplete
>
> as far as i know, this is the only available recording of this group besides the Jazz 625 video.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
Haven't seen this, but have seen the Jazz 625 one, which was pretty awful--a typical Gilmore performance away from Sun Ra. I can only think of three occasions when he shined in that sort of context--with Andrew Hill, Pete LaRoca and George Russell. Performances with Dizzy Reece, Elmo Hope, Clifford Jordan, Mingus, Blakey, Freddie Hubbard, Paul Bley...well, nothing happens!

    Julian Vein
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Sat, 2012-03-03 16:37 (Reply to #3)
jb
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

+1000. John Gilmore was a great sax player and artist in all settings
in my opinion. In fact he could deserve even more recognition in the
jzz world for his work and contributions, and his influence on John
Coltrane changed the music forever.

Jostein

On 27.02.12,01:15, Knoel Scott wrote:
> I beg to differ!   Everything John Gilmore played was monumental  especially his All the things you are solo with Mingus    The Clifford Jordan Duo is an encyclopedic of Bopology   His asymetrical rhythmic phrasing is unparrelled except possibly Sonny Rollins  the sheer emotive content in his tone bwas heart wrenching!  Be careful when you speak of the Father of the 'God 'Coltrane thusly  most influential Saxophinsist since Pres (along with Rollins)
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Julian Vein
> To: saturn@outerspaceways.info
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 12:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [ Saturn ] Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan
>
> On 26/02/12 23:02, lpogost@aol.com wrote:
> > A new video from this tour has surfaced -
> > 1965 Olympia, Paris, 30 Minutes
> > tunes: The Egyptian, Blues March - incomplete
> >
> > as far as i know, this is the only available recording of this group besides the Jazz 625 video.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> Haven't seen this, but have seen the Jazz 625 one, which was pretty awful--a typical Gilmore performance away from Sun Ra. I can only think of three occasions when he shined in that sort of context--with Andrew Hill, Pete LaRoca and George Russell. Performances with Dizzy Reece, Elmo Hope, Clifford Jordan, Mingus, Blakey, Freddie Hubbard, Paul Bley...well, nothing happens!
>
>     Julian Vein
> _______________________________________________
> Saturn mailing list
> Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info
> http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options

> _______________________________________________
> Saturn mailing list
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Sat, 2012-03-03 16:37 (Reply to #4)
jb
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

+1000. John Gilmore was a great sax player and artist in all settings
in my opinion. In fact he could deserve even more recognition in the
jzz world for his work and contributions, and his influence on John
Coltrane changed the music forever.

Jostein

On 27.02.12,01:15, Knoel Scott wrote:
> I beg to differ!   Everything John Gilmore played was monumental  especially his All the things you are solo with Mingus    The Clifford Jordan Duo is an encyclopedic of Bopology   His asymetrical rhythmic phrasing is unparrelled except possibly Sonny Rollins  the sheer emotive content in his tone bwas heart wrenching!  Be careful when you speak of the Father of the 'God 'Coltrane thusly  most influential Saxophinsist since Pres (along with Rollins)
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Julian Vein
> To: saturn@outerspaceways.info
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 12:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [ Saturn ] Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan
>
> On 26/02/12 23:02, lpogost@aol.com wrote:
> > A new video from this tour has surfaced -
> > 1965 Olympia, Paris, 30 Minutes
> > tunes: The Egyptian, Blues March - incomplete
> >
> > as far as i know, this is the only available recording of this group besides the Jazz 625 video.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> Haven't seen this, but have seen the Jazz 625 one, which was pretty awful--a typical Gilmore performance away from Sun Ra. I can only think of three occasions when he shined in that sort of context--with Andrew Hill, Pete LaRoca and George Russell. Performances with Dizzy Reece, Elmo Hope, Clifford Jordan, Mingus, Blakey, Freddie Hubbard, Paul Bley...well, nothing happens!
>
>     Julian Vein
> _______________________________________________
> Saturn mailing list
> Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info
> http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options

> _______________________________________________
> Saturn mailing list
> Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info
> http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options

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Sat, 2012-03-03 16:37 (Reply to #5)
George Scala
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

Listen to this performance of "I Can't Get Started", and tell me again that
nothing happens?! I hear scores of ideas.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa10JAUMTro

On 2/26/12 6:53 PM, "Julian Vein" wrote:

> On 26/02/12 23:02, lpogost@aol.com wrote:
>> A new video from this tour has surfaced -
>> 1965 Olympia, Paris, 30 Minutes
>> tunes: The Egyptian, Blues March - incomplete
>>
>> as far as i know, this is the only available recording of this group
>> besides the Jazz 625 video.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> Haven't seen this, but have seen the Jazz 625 one, which was pretty
> awful--a typical Gilmore performance away from Sun Ra. I can only think
> of three occasions when he shined in that sort of context--with Andrew
> Hill, Pete LaRoca and George Russell. Performances with Dizzy Reece,
> Elmo Hope, Clifford Jordan, Mingus, Blakey, Freddie Hubbard, Paul
> Bley...well, nothing happens!
>
> Julian Vein
> _______________________________________________
> Saturn mailing list
> Saturn@lists.outerspaceways.info
> http://outerspaceways.info/ for subscribe and unsubscribe options

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Sat, 2012-03-03 16:37
Margaret Grimes
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

Julian Vein wrote, "... pretty awful--a typical Gilmore performance away
from Sun Ra. I can only think of three occasions when he shined in that sort
of context--with Andrew Hill, Pete LaRoca and George Russell. Performances
with Dizzy Reece, Elmo Hope, Clifford Jordan, Mingus, Blakey, Freddie
Hubbard, Paul Bley...well, nothing happens!"

Mr. Vein, I don't know what's wrong with you, but you should hang your head
in shame for writing such an attack on the brilliant and unfailing artistry
of the great John Gilmore, and I hope every single person on this list jumps
up immediately to tell you the same.

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Sat, 2012-03-03 16:37 (Reply to #7)
rodman lewis
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

On 27/02/12 09:41, Margaret Davis Grimes wrote:
> Julian Vein wrote, "... pretty awful--a typical Gilmore performance away
> from Sun Ra. I can only think of three occasions when he shined in that sort
> of context--with Andrew Hill, Pete LaRoca and George Russell. Performances
> with Dizzy Reece, Elmo Hope, Clifford Jordan, Mingus, Blakey, Freddie
> Hubbard, Paul Bley...well, nothing happens!"
>
> Mr. Vein, I don't know what's wrong with you, but you should hang your head
> in shame for writing such an attack on the brilliant and unfailing artistry
> of the great John Gilmore, and I hope every single person on this list jumps
> up immediately to tell you the same.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
Margaret,
I recognise that John Gilmore was the most important tenor of the modern
age--when I listen to "Chasin' The Trane" I hear Gilmore. That doesn't
mean that everything he did was gold. I don't agree that his artistry
was "unfailing", especially some of his bread-and-butter jobs away from
Sun Ra. I doubt any musician has or had "unfailing artistry".

I tire of those people whose favourite artists can do no wrong.

Julian Vein
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Sat, 2012-03-03 16:37
Margaret Grimes
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

Julian Vein wrote, "I recognise that John Gilmore was the most important
tenor of the modern age--when I listen to 'Chasin' The Trane' I hear
Gilmore. That doesn't mean that everything he did was gold. I don't agree
that his artistry was 'unfailing', especially some of his bread-and-butter
jobs away from Sun Ra. I doubt any musician has or had 'unfailing artistry'.
I tire of those people whose favourite artists can do no wrong."

I know lots of musicians with unfailing artistry. That doesn't mean that
they surpass themselves every single time they play, sometimes that's not
possible, for any number of reasons, but they always play with passion,
commitment, inspiration, wisdom, generosity, integrity, soul -- all the
qualities that make me so grateful to be alive and to know and hear them. I
heard John Gilmore play very close to the end of his life when he could
scarcely draw breath, and he was still doing all that. And as far as you
tiring of people whose favourite artists can do no wrong, I tire of people
who spit on our heroes. And we have enough enemies of this music doing that
without our "friends" doing it too.

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Sat, 2012-03-10 18:21
Margaret Grimes
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan


[On Monday, February 27th, 2012 at 9:38 p.m., Ahmed Abdullah wrote, " Synchronicity being what it is in this Music of the Spirit, I was down at J & R yesterday afternoon..."]

 

While I was defending John Gilmore from an insult on this list recently, I remembered a story Ahmed Abdullah posted on this list a while back about John Gilmore, Sun Ra, and Archie Shepp.  Meek and mild as John Gilmore may have seemed to some, the story Ahmed Abdullah posted clearly demonstrates that John Gilmore had the strength and integrity to defend his loved ones too.  Quoting Ahmed Abdullah:

 

"... In speaking about the Sun Ra All-Star group of the mid-8O's that he toured with, Lester [Bowie] related this tale:  Archie Shepp and Sun Ra had been going at it, egos clashing, Archie not wanting to make rehearsals and generally being uncooperative. Lester became the self-appointed peacemaker.  On the occasion of one concert, during a great Sun Ra arrangement of 'Poinciana' put together for this ensemble, Sunny became vexed at Archie when the tenor saxophonist decided to stand up to take a solo without being asked.  Sun Ra went over to Archie and took the microphone away from his sax during the solo. Undaunted, Mr. Shepp went to another microphone and continued to blow.  The ever resourceful Sun Ra pulled directorial rank and conducted the band in a space chord that swelled to volcanic level, drowning Archie out.  According to Lester, Archie was mad as hell, threatening and swearing what he was going to do to Sunny.  Lester says he saw John Gilmore physically transform himself into a snake. Marshall Allen made similar defensive and protective moves.  Totally amazed, but understanding what was happening, even though Lester had never seen anything like it in his life, he took Archie to the side to cool him out..."

Sat, 2012-03-10 18:21 (Reply to #10)
Ken Waxman 2
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan


Oh come on ...

Myth-making is one thing. Fantasy is another:
<<Lester says he saw John Gilmore physically transform himself into a snake>>

"Physically"?  The tenor saxophonist literally became " a longate, legless, carnivorous reptile of the suborder Serpentes"?

K
 
Ken Waxman
mingusaum@yahoo.ca
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos



From: Margaret Davis Grimes <musicmargaret@earthlink.net>
To: saturn@outerspaceways.info
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 12:24:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ Saturn ] Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan



[On Monday, February 27th, 2012 at 9:38 p.m., Ahmed Abdullah wrote, " Synchronicity being what it is in this Music of the Spirit, I was down at J & R yesterday afternoon..."]
 
While I was defending John Gilmore from an insult on this list recently, I remembered a story Ahmed Abdullah posted on this list a while back about John Gilmore, Sun Ra, and Archie Shepp.  Meek and mild as John Gilmore may have seemed to some, the story Ahmed
Abdullah posted clearly demonstrates that John Gilmore had the strength and integrity to defend his loved ones too.  Quoting Ahmed Abdullah:
 
"... In speaking about the Sun Ra All-Star group of the mid-8O's that he toured with, Lester [Bowie] related this tale:  Archie Shepp and Sun Ra had been going at it, egos clashing, Archie not wanting to make rehearsals and generally being uncooperative. Lester became the self-appointed peacemaker.  On the occasion of one concert, during a great Sun Ra arrangement of 'Poinciana' put together for this ensemble, Sunny became vexed at Archie when the tenor saxophonist decided to stand up to take a solo without being asked.  Sun Ra went
over to Archie and took the microphone away from his sax during the solo. Undaunted, Mr. Shepp went to another microphone and continued to blow.  The ever resourceful Sun Ra pulled directorial rank and conducted the band in a space chord that swelled to volcanic level, drowning Archie out.  According to Lester, Archie was mad as hell, threatening and swearing what he was going to do to Sunny.  Lester says he saw John Gilmore physically transform himself into a snake. Marshall Allen made similar defensive and protective moves.  Totally amazed, but understanding what was happening, even though Lester had never seen anything like it in his life, he took Archie to the side to cool him out..."


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Sat, 2012-03-10 18:21 (Reply to #11)
Gary Lawrence Murphy
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

"one never knows.  does one"


On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca> wrote:

Oh come on ...

Myth-making is one thing. Fantasy is another:
<<Lester says he saw John Gilmore physically transform himself into a snake>>

"Physically"?  The tenor saxophonist literally became " a longate, legless, carnivorous reptile of the suborder Serpentes"?

K
 
Ken Waxman
mingusaum@yahoo.ca

www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos


From: Margaret Davis Grimes <musicmargaret@earthlink.net>

To: saturn@outerspaceways.info
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 12:24:27 PM

Subject: Re: [ Saturn ] Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

[On Monday, February 27th, 2012 at 9:38 p.m., Ahmed Abdullah wrote, " Synchronicity being what it is in this Music of the Spirit, I was down at J & R yesterday afternoon..."]
 
While I was defending John Gilmore from an insult on this list recently, I remembered a story Ahmed Abdullah posted on this list a while back about John Gilmore, Sun Ra, and Archie Shepp.  Meek and mild as John Gilmore may have seemed to some, the story Ahmed
Abdullah posted clearly demonstrates that John Gilmore had the strength and integrity to defend his loved ones too.  Quoting Ahmed Abdullah:
 
"... In speaking about the Sun Ra All-Star group of the mid-8O's that he toured with, Lester [Bowie] related this tale:  Archie Shepp and Sun Ra had been going at it, egos clashing, Archie not wanting to make rehearsals and generally being uncooperative. Lester became the self-appointed peacemaker.  On the occasion of one concert, during a great Sun Ra arrangement of 'Poinciana' put together for this ensemble, Sunny became vexed at Archie when the tenor saxophonist decided to stand up to take a solo without being asked.  Sun Ra went
over to Archie and took the microphone away from his sax during the solo. Undaunted, Mr. Shepp went to another microphone and continued to blow.  The ever resourceful Sun Ra pulled directorial rank and conducted the band in a space chord that swelled to volcanic level, drowning Archie out.  According to Lester, Archie was mad as hell, threatening and swearing what he was going to do to Sunny.  Lester says he saw John Gilmore physically transform himself into a snake. Marshall Allen made similar defensive and protective moves.  Totally amazed, but understanding what was happening, even though Lester had never seen anything like it in his life, he took Archie to the side to cool him out..."


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Sat, 2012-03-10 18:21 (Reply to #12)
SunRadio
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

"it ain't necessarily so that it ain't necessarily so"

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
> "one never knows.  does one"
>
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Sat, 2012-03-10 18:21 (Reply to #13)
Alan B Saul
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Elongating our minds

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
Ken Waxman melted into a metaphoric myth:

>Oh come on ...
>
>
>Myth-making is one thing. Fantasy is another:
>>
>
>"Physically"? The tenor saxophonist literally became " a longate,
>legless, carnivorous reptile of the suborder Serpentes"?

I'm sympathetic to your point of view, Ken. My reality has a certain
correspondence with yours, I suspect.

On the other hand, we all really do have separate realities, just
based on our experiences. If we had had Mitt Romney's experiences,
what do you think we'd be like? If our experience was dominantly
poetic, we'd be metaphors. Literally.

Sat, 2012-03-10 18:21 (Reply to #14)
Knoel Scott
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan


Yes the profound loyalty of the Arkestra members was backed up with a high level of Martial Artistry ; routinely demonstrated by   Sensei Jac Jackson and Elo Omoe and others i will not state publickly;
  Personally I would pick any of them as an opponent rather than JohnnGilmore who was as lethal as he was humble!   You KNEW not to mess with Sunny or the Music  and if you didnt then a simple LOOK from John told you all you needed to know!   No one ever crossed JOHN!

  

style="font-weight:bold;">From: Margaret Davis Grimes <musicmargaret@earthlink.net>
To: saturn@outerspaceways.info
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ Saturn ] Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan


[On Monday, February 27th, 2012 at 9:38 p.m., Ahmed Abdullah wrote, " Synchronicity being what it is in this Music of the Spirit, I was down at J & R yesterday afternoon..."]
 
While I was defending John Gilmore from an insult on this list recently, I remembered a story Ahmed Abdullah posted on this list a while back about John Gilmore, Sun Ra, and Archie Shepp.  Meek and mild as John Gilmore may have seemed to some, the story Ahmed Abdullah
posted clearly demonstrates that John Gilmore had the strength and integrity to defend his loved ones too.  Quoting Ahmed Abdullah:
 
"... In speaking about the Sun Ra All-Star group of the mid-8O's that he toured with, Lester [Bowie] related this tale:  Archie Shepp and Sun Ra had been going at it, egos clashing, Archie not wanting to make rehearsals and generally being uncooperative. Lester became the self-appointed peacemaker.  On the occasion of one concert, during a great Sun Ra arrangement of 'Poinciana' put together for this ensemble, Sunny became vexed at Archie when the tenor saxophonist decided to stand up to take a solo without being asked.  Sun Ra went over to
Archie and took the microphone away from his sax during the solo. Undaunted, Mr. Shepp went to another microphone and continued to blow.  The ever resourceful Sun Ra pulled directorial rank and conducted the band in a space chord that swelled to volcanic level, drowning Archie out.  According to Lester, Archie was mad as hell, threatening and swearing what he was going to do to Sunny.  Lester says he saw John Gilmore physically transform himself into a snake. Marshall Allen made similar defensive and protective moves.  Totally amazed, but understanding what was happening, even though Lester had never seen anything like it in his life, he took Archie to the side to cool him out..."


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Sun, 2012-03-18 04:46 (Reply to #15)
sunny
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

Space Greetings, John Gilmore, the nicest of guys was tough, don't forget he was in the Military as well, and i have heard stories of some of Sun Ra's Men had to make sure the money came as promised and sometimes a litle incentive was needed.

I am reading a book about Capone and all the interest the mob had in all the clubs, and Vonski aka Von Freeman has shared stories with me about he and sun ra and some of the band having to run from some mobsters back in the late 40's, they used Von's old station wagon for the getaway.
Also George Freeman shared with me as he lived in the same building as Ra in New York.
>
> Yes the profound loyalty of the Arkestra members was
> backed up with a high level of Martial Artistry ;
> routinely demonstrated by Sensei Jac Jackson and
> Elo Omoe and others i will not state publickly;
> Personally I would pick any of them as an opponent
> rather than JohnnGilmore who was as lethal as he was
> humble! You KNEW not to mess with Sunny or the
> Music and if you didnt then a simple LOOK from John
> told you all you needed to know! No one ever
> crossed JOHN! options
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Sat, 2012-03-10 18:21
ihorsr
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

> Myth-making is one thing. Fantasy is another:
> >

that's what lester saw. who knows what really happened? maybe
someone can ask marshall allen about this? i am sure he would get a
chuckle out of being asked!

I-) ihor
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Sat, 2012-03-10 18:21
Margaret Grimes
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Art Blakey Group 1965 with John Gilmore, Lee Morgan

[Ihor wrote, "that's what lester saw. who knows what really happened?
maybe someone can ask marshall allen about this? i am sure he would get a
chuckle out of being asked!"]

This is no chuckling matter. And I doubt that Maestro Marshall Allen would
care to discuss it with the general public.

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